We should be allowed to go see him.” And he gave us permission. I was told early on with New Science by Willis Harman, one of the co-founders of the Institute of Noetic Science, and Willis was really one of my first mentors in this field, and he and I were speaking together at a college small group conversation and he just advised me. I had to re-read the science over and over again, but then I could write a chapter a week and still doing a full-time teaching load. How did you define this problem? WHEATLEY: This Buddhist who was at my seminar, right? Biography and booking information for Dr. Margaret Wheatley, Co-Founder & President of The Berkana Institute; Bestselling Author, Organizational Consultant, & Community Worker. Margaret Wheatley writes, teaches and speaks about how we can organize and accomplish work in chaotic times, sustain our relationships, and willingly step forward to … Margaret J. Wheatley is currently considered a "single author." I actually wanted to burn it, but I thought, ‘well I’ve got 10 copies out so that’s kind of a stupid gesture.’ And I decided I’m just going to play with my kids all summer. He’s one of the most renowned meditation teachers. I did have this fantasy that I would be a ranch mom and academic. So it was a great opportunity. And we formed as a 501(c)3 charitable foundation and we still didn’t quite know what we were going to do, and then Leadership and the New Science came out, and it was “Oh, well of course, these things go together.” So we spent from ’92 to 1997 or 1998 really educating people about what self-organizing systems were. It was more than one day on the street. Did you write a dissertation? As one writer said, there’s an air of extinction that follows humans throughout prehistoric and modern times. But I also, I had a great interest in science and I was really encouraged in that. SCARPINO: I’ll look forward to reading it in two weeks. But part of the pattern is we degrade the environment. It's our judgments about each other that do. Her background includes two years’ service in Korea in the Peace Corps. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Phillis Wheatley Peters, also spelled Phyllis and Wheatly (c. 1753 – December 5, 1784) was the first African-American author of a published book of poetry. I think it’s important to really talk about my role as a woman in all of this. We’re more focused on what everyone is thinking, so we’re attending to, in a much more participative way, much more inviting way. I got into quantum theory through systems thinking when a colleague of mine at the college where I was teaching said, “Meg, if you’re interested in systems thinking, you should be reading quantum theory.” I said, “Give me some titles,” and he did. You mentioned that women talk to you. SCARPINO: I actually knew that which is why I was trying to tread around that. I remember her vividly. WHEATLEY: Everything. Managed by: Bernard Raimond Assaf: Last Updated: November 25, … SCARPINO: That was actually the next thing I was going to ask you. But we were watched the whole time because we were assumed to be CIA agents in the Peace Corps. . SCARPINO: And I’m going to save time for one question that I ask everyone at the end. Margaret J. Wheatley Character Long Think Look The nature of the global business environment guarantees that no matter how hard we work to create a stable and healthy organisation, our organisation will continue to experience dramatic changes far beyond our control. |  Contact All American Speakers Bureau to inquire about speaking fees and availability, and book the best keynote speaker for your next live or virtual event. But I never—I just had great freedom. He told me I could. WHEATLEY: Oh, absolutely. . If you love Margaret, Join us on Facebook and we'll keep you updated on Wheatley's progress. The patterns of relationships and the capacities to form them are more important than tasks, functions, roles, and positions. His name is Namkhai Norbu. So that is the high point of my life, that event. Margaret “Meg” Wheatley Wise and internationally known author and expert on leadership, Meg Wheatley trains Warriors for the Human Spirit — leaders who learn as a community to become the change agents required by our impossible challenges. Well, I have two views. SCARPINO: Before there was a State of Israel. SCARPINO: And you have the girlfriend to thank for that. So I had that dichotomy. Then he wrote another book the opposite, Teaching as a Conservative Activity. My history professor in college said, “Well, I don’t like advising women to go to graduate school because you just get married and get pregnant.” I remember that comment from him, Hayden White, wonderful historian. I got to go out the night before the battle and sit with the troops around a campfire and just talking to them about what was going to happen and such. In 2005, she was elected to the Leonardo da Vinci Society for the Study of Thinking. SCARPINO: So is that ability both a strength and a weakness of human beings? I had taught myself the science, also, like everything else. SCARPINO: Okay. I still see that in most people that they’re perfecting their ideas, they’re perfecting their model, they’re looking for a clear presentation of it, thinking that the problem is the lack of ideas. . Leadership and the New Science book. SCARPINO: I want to go back when you were planning and thinking about what became Leadership and the New Science. WHEATLEY: Well, I know, but as a consultant, I mean it shifted me forever from this kind of casualness or ‘well that’s a good idea, why don’t try that’ to ‘oh my God, this has real consequences here; real consequences.’. What do you think is the most significant thing that you observed that you want to share? Us older ones don’t want to give up on the possibility. A leader can make significant change, but most of it these days is quite negative. SCARPINO: What was your colleague’s name? WHEATLEY: But it is true that one of the common phrases in Buddhist thought is everything is the result of everything else, so it’s profound interconnectedness, and everything that emerges comes from multiple causes and conditions. No. What are you going to tell them? So we can form one right now. Very difficult language, though. And wait until you see the new one. It’s like people aren’t even interested in this. Power End Back. SCARPINO: Strong woman, powerful influence. They had no idea what they were doing around organizational behavior, but they had gotten this big federal grant with the Great Society affluence. And that existed for many years and resulted—it was from 2000 to 2010 or ’11—and that’s the content of the book Walk Out Walk On, which I co-authored with Deborah Frieze, and it’s really her book. So as a Tibetan Buddhist, these things are very meaningful, that teachers do speak to you in dreams. Biography. And then I wanted to go into the doctoral program there. SCARPINO: I had a great conversation with him. SCARPINO: And you have stayed with him and with them? WHEATLEY: Yes. Meg has been an organizational consultant and researcher since 1973 and a dedicated global citizen since her youth. I already have these conversations. And so when I’m at a conference like this, I was thinking about it overnight because I was talking to people who were telling me about their new models: Well, leaders need to look at this and this and this and then it will all be fine. How did you get hooked up with them and what kinds of work did you do? There’s even a verb ‘othering.’ And our politicians are definitely just propelling that fear of the other to shut down societies in many places; fear of immigrants, fear of terrorists, fear of pandemics, fear of whatever. WHEATLEY: I was already using The Book of Runes and through intuition, guidance, whatever you want to call it, I was told the name would be in The Book of Runes. WHEATLEY: I was there for two years, signed up for a third year. It’s not up to us. Margaret WHEATLEY passed away in Dayton, Ohio. It is not our job to create organization in the way we do the elaborate organizations filled with policies and rules and such; that we could create the conditions for order to arise out of human interactions, focus on meaning and purpose of what is this work for, and we could let go of a lot of the garbage that’s out there about people needing to be controlled. - Margaret J. Wheatley You’re suffering so much and it offers you a way to work with your mind and change your perceptions and ground in a very ancient trustworthy wisdom that actually does work to relieve one’s suffering and to create a much greater level of contentment and peace. WHEATLEY: No. I invited Christina in when Berkana was reforming globally and we were going to create circles of support and inquiry, which we did in about 30 countries. Then you have students who come out of that educational system who, when they go to employers—this I hear a lot—just say, “Well, just tell me what to do.” You know, what’s on the test basically? It’s all narrative poetry and poetry. - Margaret J. Wheatley quotes from BrainyQuote.com "I'm sad to report that in the past few years, ever since uncertainty became our insistent 21st century companion, leadership has taken a great leap backwards to the familiar territory of command and control." He told me to use his name. SCARPINO: You wrote at one point, you said, “When you switch to thinking about organizations as complex living systems, you get to see a lot of processes that could work in your behalf as a leader. She served in Korea in the Peace Corps for two years and has worked for more than 40 years as a consultant, speaker, writer, teacher, and poet. You want healthy values rather than values of hate and fear or just greed. The community of Warriors expands and deepens May 23, 2019 - 10:20 pm; National Park Advisory Board, including Meg, resigns en masse February 5, 2018 - 5:59 pm; New Book in 2017: Who Do We Choose to Be? She has been an organizational consultant and researcher since 1973 and a dedicated global citizen since her youth. SCARPINO: Is that what you took away from liberal arts? And for me it was: My belief in the human spirit is what I hold as an act of faith. She says on her website that she has been applying the “lens of living systems theory to organizations and communities” asking the central question “How might we organize differently if we understood how Life organizes?”. There was a quality of courtliness towards me and the deepest respect for who I was professionally. And the whole British side of me—because I am quite British—I was raised really in this British home, but post World War II, which had a whole other level of, whole other quality to it. You really see all the causes and conditions, and it’s always depressing and sobering and overwhelming. SCARPINO: But it sounds like what you try to do when you work with people is to really reprogram the way they think based upon who they are. I need to see if I can free myself in the situation of any needs I might have so I could really be of value to whoever is in front of me. That’s right. SCARPINO: As I got older and reflected on my own life, I realized what a gift my junior high school English teacher had given me. WHEATLEY: No. And I’m still close—I mean I lived with a Korean family—and I’m still the older sister to the niece who lived with the family. I mean, it’s not high-achieving the way kids are now at all. So what’s in my heart right now is I just wish we would start to think systemically about where all these effects come from because we’re still caught in the belief that if we just fix this or we fix this or we fix this or we get a new heroic leader in, it will all be fine. WHEATLEY: Someone pointed out to me last night that the movie Frozen, which is a very big movie—all kids love it—has a whole song about fractals, so I have to go look at it again. I was the vice president. The world is not as we perceive it; therefore, we’re capable of changing how we are if we focus on changing our perception. It has a lot of my photographs as well. WHEATLEY: Yes. And the second aspect of that is that we all exist, like all life, all from particles on up, as bundles of potential that manifest in relationship. Now, Occupy did that also. . WHEATLEY: He was right. So my Harvard advisor, all my friends were saying, “This is great, don’t change a word.” But, of course, I didn’t believe them or give them any credibility, even though they were corporate leaders, some of them. WHEATLEY: Oh, you’re talking about chaos. SCARPINO: What causes were you outspoken about? I’ve always had a very personal, deep relationship with spirit. So my learning is that ideas don’t change the world or if they do—because people have pushed back at me when I say that—it takes a very long time. SCARPINO: When my students look at me and tell me that I’m not going to vote because it doesn’t make any difference, what should I tell them? What's on TV & Streaming What's on TV & Streaming Top Rated Shows … All of those end up in the child that ends up in their classroom. SCARPINO: Raven comes out of a Native American tradition? It’s not for lack of ideas. SCARPINO: Did you learn to speak any Korean? They shared desks. I would always point it out and ask why. And we went home for lunch, and we marched out of school every day to John Philip Sousa marches. And we’re stepping out with a program called Gathering Friends. I think the Orange Revolution was in December because I was home sick. SCARPINO: So I want to ask you a few questions that are a little easier just to put some background about you into this interview. I was advised to look into that. That’s so outdated now it’s tragic. . So I got more focused on what I have mentioned a few times of: So what are the dynamics that shape our behavior? That’s true. Margaret Wheatley earned her Ph.D. in administration, planning, and social policy from Harvard University. And, in fact, you had some at least published remarks . SCARPINO: Do you think that the systems we have created are resistant to change, highly resistant to change? When I look back now—and Steve instantly loved the book and predicted my whole future with great accuracy—he said, “This book will make you famous. It is the source of peaceful transitions because when we don’t take in information, we only hold onto our opinions and in this media environment, in this polarized environment, we are not learning from each other anymore. Margaret Hilda Thatcher, Baroness Thatcher, LG, OM, DStJ, PC, FRS, HonFRSC (née Roberts; 13 October 1925 – 8 April 2013) was a British stateswoman who served as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from 1979 to 1990 and Leader of the Conservative Party from 1975 to 1990. WHEATLEY: I could, but what I would rather do is show you the trail that led to Art of Hosting because I’ve also published a number of things on shifting the leadership mental model from leader-as-hero to leader-as-host. They don’t get it at all. Bio Margaret Wheatley is a well-respected writer, speaker, and teacher for how we can accomplish our work, sustain our relationships, and willingly step forward to serve in this troubling time. She and I became dear friends. Strength Power Society. How do you know when I need you? SCARPINO: I’m going to do that. I write because a book has told me it’s time and this is the content. I work with him quite a lot now. It seeks order, and we can participate in that. Indiana University We discard it if we don’t want to believe it. WHEATLEY: I thought ‘I’m done.’ Anyway, but in those bizarre little twists, I ended up at Harvard in the organizational behavior program and that was so much better. WHEATLEY: It is. In 2005, she was elected to the Leonardo Da Vinci Society for the Study of Thinking. I was deeply offended by the current issue of Time Magazine which basically is blaming teachers. (Laughing.) And I love the discipline. SCARPINO: You mentioned being on retreat. He said, “Meg, don’t make too much of the science; it’s just catching up with spiritual traditions and spiritual wisdom.” And I said, “Thank you, and the reason I’m doing that is because as a woman it’s my science that gives me credibility.” And that proved true. Then we will work our way chronologically through your career. I really appreciated the opportunity to do this. SCARPINO: Well, I was going to follow up with a thought leader question, but do you ever feel as though you have to live up to the reputation? And when did you get your doctoral degree? Because you’re presenting a solution here.” And so let’s go back because this is where systems thinking needs to be reactivated because it’s kind of disappeared. And then we say it’s a problem with teachers? . This was the month of June ’91. It looks like we don't have any Biography for Margaret Wheatley yet. WHEATLEY: That goes back to creating the conditions for self-organization to happen. 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