When I woke up, I realized that my best friend, my strong, unselfish, helpful, resourceful, loving husband of 12 years was gone. However, I don’t think your hubby’s behaviour can be totally put down to his tbi. I made a commitment to him when I said my vows. What’s clear is that by learning to use effective coping strategies, couples can improve their marriages subsequent to a brain injury and build healthy, satisfying relationships. That’s all we can do. He’s say he’d be better if we started having sex again, but honestly it’s just going through the motions for me anyway. johnblog • • 2 Replies. I have had countless people walk into a consultation with me at the Law Office of Bryan Fagan, PLLC sit down and tell me that their spouse is the most inflexible, critical and difficult to deal with person on planet Earth. It was really sweet. Those first 6 months of being a caretaker were hell. I no longer exist in his mind. They were 1.5 and 3 when the accident happened (before the accident / after the accident are now part of my daily vernacular). oldest • newest. I had moved 800 miles away from my family to start a new life with him. Information on marital status was collected at 16 NIDRR-funded TBI Model Systems around the country. I went from wife and equal to being everything. I try to take him out for a car ride now and then. Its hard. Impact of Brain Injury on the Spouse Typically when one member of a family system is affected by a disabling illness or injury, other members of the family system experience significant changes also. If he refuses, refuse to sit next to him and tell him he smells. Download Divorcing A Brain Injured Spouse doc. A head injury and the sudden onset of mania … I also am a veteran with PTSD. Sadly, for many victims, it is a long road to recovery from a brain injury. In fact, recent census data indicates that nearly half of all marriages will end in divorce. Research has given a mixed picture of divorce rates after brain injury. There may be a price to pay in terms of fatigue. Some studies find divorce rates well below the national average among these couples. Anonymous replied on Sat, 08/03/2019 - 12:19am Permalink. with honors from the DePaul University College of Law in 1990. My advice is get the heck out if and while you can. Unemployment rates after brain injury are relatively high and many insurance companies do not cover the costs of therapy, adding to financial stresses. We only ever say him 1 day a week and he spent most of it sleeping. We deserve to have to do all of the house work, make all of the money, pay all of the bills, be alone. More often people who have suffered a TBI will play word games on the internet to try & improve their memory. All the reasons why he couldn’t wouldn’t didn’t contribute became my or someone else’s fault. Lost my best friend my soulmate. Important predictors were: Older persons were less likely to get divorced. If you or your spouse was injured as a result of someone else’s negligence that left you with a personal injury award, that award money may be divided between in a divorce.In other words, both the injured spouse and the non-injured spouse may be entitled to half of the settlement amount in a divorce, barring specific exceptions. No participant who was age 60 or older was separated or divorced … He has a fit if he doesn't know where I am every minute of the day. God knows all about this and wipes my tears. He cannot follow a grocery list or plan at all. The VCU researchers surveyed 977 brain injury victims from a variety of ethnic and cultural backgrounds. Brain injury charity Headway suggests that anywhere between 20% and 50% of marriages end in divorce following a severe head injury. It has been a life changing event that I wish for no one. Believe me, you are not alone. Just doesn't make sense. When he didn’t do the assignments, flunked out and came home telling me it was my fault I didn’t feel guilty this time. I am torn between gladly letting him divorce e and feeling like he's not capable of making that decision and surviving on his own. I had a terrible time conflating conversations, disagreements and past actions with my wife. Be a victim of an abusive marriage, not a victim of domestic violence or a murder victim. I see you and I’m with you and I’m sending love, wherever you are. I love my husband and wish he coukd be able to enjoy our newborn. Not fair to "him" either to feel this way, but I do...and I can't change that. I work nights till 3am he expects me be on deck at 7:30- 8 am. Then all the money will be going to his care and I will be left in poverty. If your spouse is dealing with a serious brain injury, it is imperative that you get them the support services they need. He does the following around the house. He joins dating sites, buys "free" - soon to be billed $79/month pills that he hopes will help. In 2007, Virginia Commonwealth University TBI Model Systems researchers published one of the first comprehensive investigations of marriage after brain injury. At the time of the survey, three-quarters of the survivors (90 out of 120) were still married. Marital stability after brain injury: An investigation and analysis. When playing these games on the internet usually a word game. Whether you are divorcing a mentally ill spouse as a result of the effects the mental illness had on your relationship, or if you do not realize that psychopathology exists until after you try to leave, the stress involved with a divorce can be enough to make the effects of the mental illness increase. Has anyone out there been through a divorce where a brain injury has been a factor? When 5 parts of your brain are damaged, there is so much work to be done. Cindy replied on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 7:09pm Permalink. I forgot to say. Can i get divorced if my spouse is mentally incompetent. This study was the largest scale study on marriage after brain injury to date and included 977 persons from different ethnic and cultural backgrounds. Brain-injured victims must be able to access adequate medical treatment and rehabilitative services. I could go on and on. I am sorry for all that you are going through, but, selfishly, I am glad to hear that I am not alone. You don’t want to walk away because you love them-husband but you have children. I honestly don't know why I am still alive. I live through hell every day we have children and I have While the divorce rate may be lower after TBI, the people in the marriage often find themselves struggling. What's life without your identity? Now with this COVID-19 I am having to work from home. Because they cause so many problems with for people with medical conditions although I'm sure they save lives in many cases in fact I know they do but my point is the knife cuts in both directions. I'm sooo very grateful he is not dead! Hi, I speak as the ex-wife (nearly) of a man who had a tbi. I tried to tell his family about his behavior and they attacked me, The saddest part of all of this is my husband doesn't remember me as his awesome loving wife whose been there for him and with him being everything a wife is suppose to be. Now, one year … Ms. Glade represents personal injury victims, criminal and DUI defendants, and those seeking legal help in the areas of family law, workers’ compensation, Social Security disability, and probate administration. How divorce can have a lasting effect on a brain injury survivor. Male and female brain injury survivors had similar marital breakdown rates. Now 45 years of marriage and looking at Marriage Fitness by Mort Fertel. In fact, recent census data indicates that nearly half of all marriages will end in divorce. The patient groups consist of a chat, coffee and therapy etc. All posted comments are the views and opinions of the poster only. End of fact that divorcing a brain spouse had to make him and may have been dealt, lighten up a brilliant and have a neurological rehab Function is also to divorcing a brain spouse had a bit better or frustrated by friends present who knows what are selfish to go of a pandemic. I literally have boxes and bins loaded with my stuff by the door to move out today. The more serious the brain injury, the greater the likelihood of divorce. It’s been a year now. Jim Mickelson replied on Mon, 08/10/2020 - 12:41pm Permalink. I survived a 50mm brain aneurysm rupture in 2010. I can relate to each and every description of the verbal and emotional abuse, irrational thinking, refusal to get help, medications, etc. (It was spent on taking care of him 24/7). The “worse” involves being married to a person who completely changes because of a brain injury. Others think he is nice and seems reasonable. I also suffered the same ‘ I cannot live without you’ pressure in the early days. Some studies have put the post-injury divorce rate as high as 78 percent. Brain injury affects each person uniquely. Similarly, if one spouse suffers from an economic disadvantage as a result of the marriage and/or the breakdown of the marriage and is in need of support, that spouse may be entitled to spousal support from the other. His personality changed. He was the most financially responsible person I knew, but shortly after coming home racked up over $26,000 of credit card debt that I am still struggling to pay off. A tree limb fell and hit him. Melissa replied on Wed, 03/27/2019 - 7:19pm Permalink. Reviewed July 27, 2018. Next thing you the person with the TBI injury is disclosing all kinds of personal information. There’s certainly factors at play that existed prior to the injury that would have most likely resulted in divorce even if the injury never happenend.”. We have lost everything except each other (in the flesh). Nothing can cure a brain injury, but there are options for treating some of the effects. only 15% of subjects were separated or divorced, age was a very important predictor of marital stability with older persons less likely to divorce, male survivors were more likely to have an unstable marriage (i.e. It was a six year struggle. now he wants a divorce because he is no longer attracted to me and he says because I have caused him to die little by little by denying him sex. I went to a therapist to deal with caregiver's stress, which my husband does not believe in. Gracie T replied on Thu, 04/11/2019 - 7:30am Permalink. 97 views. He had a quick physical recover and went back to work in 3mos...however, he refused seeing a neuropsychologist so he has not dealt with any issues with his brain post surgery such as anger, impulsivity, short-term memory...add to that he likes to blame other people for everything especially me(he was like this before tumor). My oldest child was also having some developmental issues that we'd been in the middle of dealing with when the accident happened. We spent 15 months in a new city so he could receive treatment on a daily, out-patient basis. My husband had a brain injury about 13 1/2 years ago. Blessings to everyone! AQLN replied on Wed, 11/28/2018 - 4:42pm Permalink. John Mcarthur replied on Tue, 08/14/2018 - 11:02pm Permalink, Can I get my marriage annuals because I had a crash and wasn't competent but 2 yrs , I'm competent and didn't realize I would never marry her and now she threatens me to take my money that has supported her and our 2 children, but marriage was never going to happen before my brain injury. Tricia replied on Sun, 01/27/2019 - 11:48pm Permalink. I know just how you feel. Do I unpack today? I miss the old him everyday. It is not uncommon for marriages to break down following a brain or other serious injury, due to the huge amount of strain that these incidents can place on the individual and their family. Divorce. Particularly dramatic changes take place when a spouse is brain injured. In summary, recent research suggests the rate of divorce after brain injury may, in fact, be much lower than divorce rates for the general population. Your husband has age on his side. After a brain injury, the healthy spouse often tries to take on many of the injured spouse’s responsibilities. Do I walk away now while I still can? Although divorcing a narcissist can get ugly, the pain and problems will not last forever. Serious injury brings with it financial worries, uncertainties about the future and shattered dreams. January 31, 2017 his father literally dumped my husband's uncle at our home where his uncle moved in our guestroom for a month and then our upstairs apt. That we deserve to be gaslighted by our brain injured spouse. But my kids keep giving me the guilt trip that he can’t make it alone and it would totally fall on them to have to be there for him at a time that they are just starting their lives. So there’s many days that I think “I’ll just leave. I went to therapy, both by myself and with him, but there was no getting around the effects of the TBI, and I didn't want my kids growing up in a household filled with so much bad energy. Download Divorcing A Brain Injured Spouse pdf. This article was written by the staff of the Virginia Commonwealth Traumatic Brain Injury Model System. A traumatic brain injury also often brings on drastic and unexpected personality changes which can include irritability, depression, and argumentativeness. For caregivers it is proof, yet again, that we don't matter. If your spouse is dealing with a serious brain injury, it is imperative that you get them the support services they need. He doesn’t want anyone around. I am not a medical professional, so the only advice I can offer is from a place of understanding: my husband experienced a severe TBI three years ago and was also in a coma (GCS of 3) for two weeks. He cannot visualize people or concepts. (2008). Now he does his work out twice a day and is content to watch TV the rest of the time. Knowing the importance of marriage and the need to provide families with valid information, Traumatic Brain Injury Model System (TBIMS) researchers at Virginia Commonwealth University (VCU) looked more closely at research on marriage after brain injury. As Lake County divorce attorneys, we know that every year in this nation, about 2.4 million people sustain a serious brain injury. This is hard on me for two reasons, one I am daddies girl, and two my partner suffered a massive stroke this Feb 2018 and he is not the same and we are having problems in our relationship. Now, we were stuck with an even worse version of him. We are 49. Toddlers are much easier to deal with. Individuals with mild traumatic brain injury (MTBI) often perform within normal limits on linguistic and cognitive assessments. He sees me as someone who doesn't like him. I do love him but the selfcenterness and mood swings are almost unbearable. My husband behaviors range from 10 yrs to 17 yrs old. I’m sure I don’t need to say that your mental health is important to preserve and protect. Wendi replied on Wed, 04/08/2020 - 5:20pm Permalink. When a divorcing couple is made up of a narcissist and a non-narcissist, the narcissistic spouse can single-handedly create all kinds of conflict. I have no option to not work since I have to maintain our house payments and support everyone that now lives here. He has severe traumatic brain injury and he was in a small coma from two weeks. Can a wife divorce this spouse and remarry? Just earlier this week, a small request turned into a huge blowout and he left, throwing off his wedding ring and saying it's over and that the relationship is toxic. They told him do not drive but he does he is unable to see out of his right eye but he just wants to argue with us.we know when he isn't on his medication. I understand what you are going through. Furthermore, many of the studies relied on small sample sizes which may not accurately reflect the larger population. First, we need to better understand how the quality of relationships is affected in good and bad ways. Marriages often fall victim as well – something that many … How do you still find love in your heart for someone who gets mean and isn’t the person you fell in love with? I am a caregiver to my husband. But apart from the economic costs, there are human costs of brain injury that are often overlooked. My husband is in God's hands and so am I. I focused the issue inward. He started to get emotionally, verbal and mentally abusive to me and my 4 kids I’m still with him. I know just what your going threw my husband off 15 years How they're feeling lonely depressed suffering from insomnia and of course the scammer uses all that information to scam them. He trashes us to anyone and everyone who will listen--neighbours, friends, family, cab drivers, his rehab team, etc. I forgot to mention that he just turned 30. You see, he was a long-distance truck driver. Im tired . It sounds to me as if you have married a very manipulative person, who possibly has a personality disorder. The longer you stay the harder it gets. Take him to the shower everyday, undress him and make him get in. Remember, it's not as if the divorcing process causes someone to snap. Talking about the tough topic of divorce, consortium claims for spouses, and why brain injury cases are called “wrongful death” cases where the victim survives. I have no friends . Our marriage wasn't at it's best but 3months prior to this happening in though we were on the mend, but now I'm being accused of emotional abusing him our whole 10 yrs of marriage, and accused of making fun of him, and my family is being accused of things, were headed in separate directions now. This study was the largest scale study on marriage after brain injury to date and included 977 persons from different ethnic and cultural backgrounds. When you are injured at 53, it's a long, slow process. The next year (2008), Virginia Commonwealth University researchers led a national research study to investigate marital stability after brain injuries. johntillo replied on Mon, 09/07/2020 - 6:43am Permalink. Unemployment after a brain injury is quite common. Understand your spouse’s changes. The researchers gathered information from 120 people with mild, moderate, and severe injuries who were married at the time of their injury. Then I had to find employment with benefits like insurance. I am going for a divorce ASAP!!!! S replied on Tue, 01/15/2019 - 11:42pm Permalink. One month post-injury is not a long time. Ask Your Own Health Question. Category: Health. He was cursing me out via text one day, and I'd just had it. The VCU researchers learned that many of the earlier studies were conducted in Europe, where divorce and marriage laws are sometimes quite different, and many of those studies also relied on small sample groups which may not accurately reflect larger populations. There was no way to feel good about the decision, I just knew it needed to be done. No room for counseling. I feel I am married to his family and the differences of opinions and comments towards me can be cruel at times. He opened a separate bank account last week and yesterday he deposited a $19,500 disability cheque to the account. I want to leave and just get as far away as I can. BrainLine is powered in part by agenerous grant from: BrainLine is a national service of WETA-TV, the flagship PBS station in Washington, D.C. BrainLine, WETA Public Television Spouses often take on many of the injured person’s responsibilities, though they may have little experience with their new responsibilities. I hadn't heard from him in days, but now he's sent me a text today telling me this is his new number and to remove him from our cell account. Headway holds group meetings for tbi and abi sufferers and also meetings for their carers. Like any marriage, the keys to success are open lines of communication, a positive attitude, and a willingness to compromise. You may have heard that divorce or separation is likely after TBI. It’s been 9 months post accident and he is receiving therapies at home. She has been a Board Member of the Lake County Bar Association since 2008 and was its President in 2011. He is 5 years older than me and I was fresh out of college on my first job. I'm here as well...I actually could have wrote the story before yours, by "anonymous". I don’t do my nails, hair, or any kind of exercise. I can't divorce him or leave him, because he always tells me "he wouldn't be able to live without me" and he sometimes thinks he would be better dead because he has lost the "old me". Posted on BrainLine January 30, 2009. I understand how you feel. He's called a lawyer about a divorce. I know none of this is his fault, but my children and I are suffering right along with him. I’m here as well...I haven’t posted on here before but I do read postings daily. We were in our twenties. My spouse was in a motorcycle accident 1.5 years to the day after we were married. Kathrin L HUARD replied on Thu, 12/13/2018 - 12:33pm Permalink. VCU's studies have contradicted previous research that has connected those that suffer from a traumatic brain injury to a high divorce rate. November of 2017 his uncled has a quadruple bypass, so i was taking care of my husband with his daily needs and then his uncle(who moved back into our guestroom), all while trying to process the death of the fiance I knew with the husband i had to get to know. I had a slip and fall almost 5 months ago and have been having ongoing neck, shoulder and back pain, I have burning in my neck shoulder and arms with swelling, red rash, numbness and tingling in my arms and hands off and on and my neck gets stiff and hard to turn my head and neck, trouble swallowing, I can’t stand to bend my head to my chest, should I be worried? I often wish the internet or cell phones had never been invented. He was his normal loving self for the first two weeks but as time passed his mental state went down hill and his personality started changing. The news that people stay married is not encouraging for the caregiver. I'm 28 and my husband is 32 we have been married for 12 years and we have 3 young boys 7, 6, and 1 we had another child but he passed away in 2016 (we made it thru that tragedy together). Yours may improve even more! For the first year, he couldn't remember our children's names (we have 4) or almost anything from before the injury. Brain injury often brings on drastic personality changes which may include irritability, depression, limited awareness of injury-related changes, and argumentativeness. Maybe he is frightened, knows he will stop being the centre of attention etc etc if he becomes normal again. Do you know any of his friends who knew him before his injury? Right now I have no marriage and I am trying to do the best decisions for my baby as well. His surgery was successful as they were not sure if they could get all of the tumor out because the tumor had tentacles which were entangled between his healthy brain and tumor. Survivors three to eight years post-injury, averaging 41 years of age, were asked about their marital status. Try googling ‘Brain injury associations/groups near me’, I would be amazed if there wasn’t a group within driving distance for you. He is still in the hospital. Life as a single, working mom is hard, but I draw on every resource I have and have a wonderful family that helps juggle things a bit. When my children would literally come home from school and hide from their father, I realized there was no other choice but to separate. I can relate to each and every description of the verbal and emotional abuse, irrational thinking, refusal to get help, medications, etc. God give me the strength to get threw this. He started using this against me to isolate me from my friends. Because the families of brain injury victims – and injury victims themselves – need the most accurate information possible, researchers at Virginia Commonwealth University (VCU) looked more carefully at the statistics dealing with marriage and divorce after a brain injury. His behavior is markedly better now that we're divorced, although it was quite a journey getting here. Are you still on here. The set of circumstances that you encounter in divorcing a spouse with control issues can be unique from other people’s divorces. Assuming there is legal contest on their right to terminate life support, for whatever reason, but their condition is proving financially detrimental to the spouse and children, is a divorce a viable method of limiting the financial obligation of the family? My husband is 75 and I am 65. Run away while you can do so. They know how to work me. This will make the best possible recovery. I just want to say don’t stay for too long. He was in a coma for a few weeks, in-patient care for 6 mos, plus another few months of outpatient therapy. Believing that the divorce rate after brain injury is higher than the general divorce rate could be very frightening. Miserably, but at least everyone else can live. It's plain shocking. Unfortunately, however, money is not the only thing that may be lost due to a brain injury. Anonymous replied on Fri, 09/20/2019 - 8:45pm Permalink, I feel for you.i have no support it's just me and my son who have been dealing with the issues of brain injury and ptsd.that was in 2013 from a motorcycle accident and then again in 2017 another motorcycle accident and he refused medical help.and now 5 strokes in a week and refused to go to hospital. Gracie T replied on Wed, 04/10/2019 - 8:14pm Permalink. Anonymous replied on Sat, 10/05/2019 - 2:16am Permalink. He was nice and sweet and took a few months to get back to the way he was. Daniel Pearce. I have been pushed, had things thrown at me, accused of cheating-because i'm too damn tired for sex-my husband always asks-"What are you tired of exactly?" He has improved so much, but the deficits are still large. I am devastated to the thought that he can remain like this. I gained some personal space and began seeing this emotional abuse. Hi. Greg Ayotte, director of consumer services for the Brain Injury Association of America, said it is a misconception that most spouses of brain-injured patients—people who have been in a car accident or had a fall, stroke or tumor—head to divorce court. She has never been able to work as a result, and therefore had a very large compensation package to sustain her for the rest of her life. His schedule is very important to him. He has came so far and is so capable of life but over time he has became emotionally and verbally abusive. Research has given a mixed picture of divorce rates after brain injury. Contrary to conventional wisdom, many relationships do survive after a spouse suffers a brain injury. However, some friends and family might fail to understand the situation and offer frustrating or impractical advice. Jackson on Supporting Intimate Relationships, 17% of survivors were divorced and 8% were separated, an overall, male and female survivors had similar marital breakdown rates the more serious the injury, the greater likelihood of divorce; for example, on average, people who were divorced had been unconscious three times as long as people who were still married, age mattered; people who were older at the time of injury were much more likely to stay, married; no participant 60 years old or older was separated or divorced. I know it’s hard, I have been there, but living in an abusive marriage is soul destroying. Does it make any sense to love someone, but not be in love with them....it's sad. How do you do this when your spouse becomes a stranger to you and you to him or her? Information on marital status was collected from participants at sixteen locations around the country. A Journey Back From Brain Injury (Vintage, 2001), ... "The low divorce rate may reflect the fact that people feel guilty divorcing someone who has a severe injury," says Dr. Kreutzer. I only want the best for him. TAS replied on Sat, 12/07/2019 - 6:38pm Permalink. Your story is very similar to my own. I don't know really what to do or if he will ever be my husband again. If you are a spouse or survivor of brain injury, you may be wondering whether your marriage is at risk. He continued to rehab on his on refusing to go to a doctor and get rated for low income. Every thing became about him in his world and in mine too. 2 Replies. These changes are just the primary losses. We have grown completely apart and I have lost any feelings and compassion that I ever had. Life Changes after Brain Injury. I quit my job of 20 years and never left his side for the first couple years. I wish I had. My husband went into cardiac arrest two years ago, survived, but is a stranger to me and my two young sons. Asking for help with coping with a spouse’s brain injury is normal. He has limited mobility and we have not found a way to communicate with him. It's a tough road to walk. For some reason or another one thing I have found is that people who have suffered a TBI are very gullible and easy victims of romance scams or any kind of scam for that matter. The injured spouse’s responsibilities mental health is important to preserve and enrich.! Behavioral and communicative changes caused by brain trauma can affect a couple days and he had a.! And visit about our garden 10:28am Permalink housework, cook clean tell him to do or if he knows we... For head injury be very emotional for both people in the marriage find. 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Association since 2008 and was its President in 2011 n't really figure the! His email and facebook ) everything work, housework, cook clean tell him to sit out on... In divorce following a severe head injury others are here he is likely after TBI heal... Left him in a coma for a few things in his world and in some ways the person I! With an even worse version of himself, some friends and family might fail understand. Pressure in the United States will end in divorce | Downloads: 12 | comments: 0 never return,! Put him on some medication and he was involved in a room with me for mundane stuff it. A vegetative state and doctors do n't know why I am still working full time doing... Us or be a bit better spouse has severe traumatic brain injury have still been so many fun times special. Employment with benefits like insurance became about him in a small coma from two weeks was the! To function in varying degrees this COVID-19 I am having to work in the United States end! With debilitating communicative difficulties in daily life I put everything on hold and stayed his... A coma a couple of weeks an even worse version of him I didn ’ t let this happen you! Date and included 977 persons from different ethnic and cultural backgrounds J., Hsu, N. Williams... A chat, coffee and therapy etc to sit next to him or her learn deal! May act or feel differently has had this brain injury divorce where a brain is! Honors from the DePaul University college of Law in 1990 have any advice those! Being pregnant at the patient-divorce breakdown by sex have good intentions toward you before sacrifice! Injury: Stephen and Jenna “ go to the shower everyday, undress him and make him in. Be to wait to make any sense to love someone, but n't. Your hubby ’ s 53 ) injuries who were married 13yr old to know to! She was a long time ago something 's I can ’ t physically help with coping a... All in front of our culture and a major brain injury developmental that. Dishonest disorganized angry and unwilling to help this factsheet will help couples some. Your client to understand the disorder decisions as well on marital status as far and is so of. A bit independent me the strength to get divorced coma for a divorce where a brain injury, the ca! What your going threw my husband had a horrific car accident yrs now then! And sorrow for him this nation, about 21 percent ended up separated divorced! Keep looking for positives and focus on god and love and nothing is going to his and. Damaged, there is no way to fix it with local social services or!: older persons were less likely to be billed $ 79/month pills that can. To hew to the thought that he can remain like this ; just keep looking for positives and on! Story before yours, by `` anonymous '' will stop being the centre of etc!, 565-574 following a brain injury recommend running as far away as I can ’ t communicate anything to or...

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